Humor
DVD
Recreation
Television
Television
Television
Television
Television
Television
Television
Blu-ray
Anime Review
Television
Television
© 2008 Ken Thorne
Composer Ken Thorne
Exclusive Music Interview:
E-Notes: KEN THORNE FLIES HIGH AT LAST WITH 'SUPERMAN' 2 AND 3
The composer chats about putting music to the tights and the challenges that entailed
By DANIEL SCHWEIGER, Soundtrack Editor
Published 4/8/2008
Each month, iF Magazine brings you Internet conversations with Hollywood’s top composers. This is E-notes.
Sure John Williams may have written one of the greatest scores of the last century with SUPERMAN: THE MOTION PICTURE. But just imagine being the composer who had to fit on the same cape for SUPERMAN 2 and 3. That no less heroic figure was Ken Thorne, a long time musical collaborator for director Richard Lester on such films as HELP, FINDERS KEEPERS and ROYAL FLASH. No slouch himself when it came to writing such other memorably adventurous scores as JUGGERNAUT and HANNIE CAULDER, Lester was given the almost unimaginable task of using John Williams’ pre-existing music to score SUPERMAN 2. And where Williams had brilliantly tailored his music to fit scenes it was actually written for, Ken Thorne would have the task of cutting up another composer’s musical cape to fit an entirely different move- one already shaken by the producers’ replacement of Richard Donner with Richard Lester.
The fact that Thorne brilliantly re-structured, and re-performed Williams’ music to fit a movie that many people think is even better than the original SUPERMAN is no small testament to Thorne’s skills. And when SUPERMAN 3 rolled along, the composer was at last able to add his own alongside Williams’ themes. Playing SUPERMAN with a more humorous flair, but without losing any of his melodic muscle, Thorne added a beautiful love theme for Clark Kent and Lana Lang, and a stupendous missile battle to the Man of Steel’s musical legacy.
But through no fault of his own, SUPERMAN 2’s reduced orchestra size and its tinny mix didn’t hint at the true power of his scores’ sound. And after taking years of fan flack for this and SUPERMAN 3’s uneven comic tone as a movie, Ken Thorne has at last been vindicated by the release of “The Blue Box,” an amazing collection of all of the scores, alternates and outtakes to grace Christopher Reeve’s SUPERMAN films, as well as its animated series. And with the super-cleaning that Blue Box producers Michael Matessino and Lukas Kendall have given to Thorne’s work, SUPERMAN 2 and 3 have now emerged with the a sound that can only be described as stupendous, giving a new appreciation to Thorne’s work as a Williams’ adaptor as well as a composer with his own uniquely entertaining voice.
Now basking in the newfound glory that’s been given to his super work, Ken Thorne reflects on the challenges of putting on the most famous superhero costume in film history.
iFMagazine: Many composers would have ego problems adapting the work of another musician, especially when it came to John Williams. Did you view it more as a challenge?
KEN THORNE: I was given specific instructions regarding the music to SUPERMAN 2. I was to adapt John William's SUPERMAN score to fit SUPERMAN 2! The process of adaptation is fascinating and is a technique I have applied to other movies such as ROYAL FLASH (in which I used lots of Wagner, and HELP, where I used Beatles themes as leitmotifs. Of course the lengths of the music cues in the "adapted" score are all different, so the major problem is how to fit an existing cue into the new time frame. This involves contraction and expansion, slight changes in tempo, and, where necessary, composing passages in a similar style. Then I tried to make these adjustments as seamless as possible! So I don't have an ego problem using this art form!
iF: Did you have any contact with John Williams while working on SUPERMAN 2 and 3?
THORNE: I didn't have any contact with John Williams on either of the SUPERMAN films. I once met him at The Hollywood Bowl some time after the SUPERMAN films were completed. He was conducting a concert with the LA Philharmonic and I had written an arrangement for Andy Williams who was appearing on the program. (I had originally met Andy back in 1972 when I re-scored his library for symphony orchestra for his first tour of Europe which I also conducted for him). I just shook hands and exchanged greetings with John and that was all!
iF: Though your orchestra was smaller that what John Williams got for SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, how did you try to make it work to your advantage?
THORNE: I asked John Richards, who engineered all my sessions in London, what number he considered the optimum sized orchestra to be for this particular studio we were using, and he estimated somewhere around sixty players. I don't recall the exact number. And anyway I didn't have the same size budget as SUPERMAN- THE MOVIE!
iF: Did the political problems that the Salkinds had with Richard Donner affect your work in any way?
THORNE: Problems between the Salkinds and Richard Donner didn't affect me in any way at all. Ilya was always very helpful (a charming man) and not intrusive at the sessions. He also threw the best “wrap” parties!!
iF: It's pretty amazing how you essentially "tracked" SUPERMAN 2 with John Williams' original score. How did you pick and choose which music to segue in and out of, and yet make it musical?
THORNE: I was provided with all the tapes and scores of SUPERMAN- THE MOVIE. Richard Lester, John Victor Smith (editor), Bob Hathaway (my music editor) and I, discussed in detail where music should be used and came out pretty well in broad agreement! I only had to do one re-write, in fact, when Richard opted for a different direction to the way I had gone. (It was an easy fix.) I would also point out that ALL the music used in SUPERMAN 2 was recorded by me. No scores recorded for SUPERMAN were used in edited form in SUPERMAN 2.
iF: Two big highlights of SUPERMAN 2 are the EiffelTower hostage-taking and Metropolis battle sequence. How did you approach these scenes?
THORNE: The hostage taking was almost all my own original music. I only used the SUPERMAN theme on cuts to Superman flying to the rescue. (Glad you liked it!) The battle sequence cue consisted mainly of readjusted John Williams cues and a percentage of mine.
iF: How much of your original music was in SUPERMAN 3?
THORNE: I estimate that about one third of the score was mine but it's impossible to come up with a precise figure.
iF: Was it the plan to adapt less of John Williams' music in SUPERMAN 3 in favor of your own material, or did you have to fight to have more original score in the film?
THORNE: Yes, I was given more freedom in SUPERMAN 3- no fighting required! Giorgio Moroder also wrote several songs for the movie as you know, but Richard could find no place for them. It was he who suggested using a leitmotif of Moroder's for the love theme. It is, as you say, a beautiful melody and fitted the Superman/Lana Lang scenes well. I wanted to portray an innocent love between the two and the Moroder’s theme absolutely filled the bill.
iF: How did you want to get across SUPERMAN 3's more comedic tone, while not losing Superman's more "serious" heroic qualities?
THORNE: I must confess to feeling that Richard Pryor was miscast. In fact, more fundamentally, I didn't feel good about an evil Superman either and, in fact, I also had serious misgivings about the whole concept of the comedic approach!
iF: A highlight of SUPERMAN 3 is your beautiful love theme for Superman and Lana Lang. What did you want to convey between these characters?
THORNE: The ultimate computer battle you speak of in SUPERMAN 3 is nothing but a blur to me! There was so much heavily scored music in SUPERMAN 3 that a deadline for completion became a real problem. I incurred some concern among the producers by having to ask for yet one more session! Believe me it was truly a battle!
iF: A lot of people, especially critics, consider SUPERMAN 2 to be the best film of the series. Would you agree?
THORNE: Yes I've seen Richard Donner's cut and I much prefer Richard Lester's version. SUPERMAN 2 was, in my own view, the most interesting of the four. A wonderful combination of those three arch villains, plus Lex Luther and his inept cohort Otis, and of course his romantic affair with Lois Lane added up to a super story. I loved working on that movie!
iF: How did you collaborate with producers Mike Matessino and Lukas Kendall on the SUPERMAN "blue box?"
THORNE: Mike Matessino and Lukas Kendall have done a truly fantastic job on "the blue box" and I owe them a debt of gratitude for restoring my scores so wonderfully. My input was minimal and only they know how much labor went into this fabulous restoration. THANK YOU GUYS!!
iF: Now that the complete scores for SUPERMAN 2 and 3 have been completely released, and sound better than ever before, do you think it will cause people to re-evaluate your work on the films?
THORNE: I understand from Mike that there is a lot of interest being shown in "the blue box" and I do hope that it will result in a re-evaluation of my work on these two movies because the negativity expressed towards my scores has always been tough to accept.
iF: What do you think that you and Richard Lester brought to Superman's ongoing cinematic legend?
THORNE: My association with Richard Lester goes back many years. And he always looks for an original approach to whatever subject he is working on. I think it's plain from the cutting, and the resulting difference in the pace of these movies, that he saw Superman in a very different light to Richard Donner!!!
Fly high with Ken Thorne (not to mention John Williams, Alexander Courage and Ron Jones) in the SUPERMAN Blue Box here.
Reader Comments
from UK devon sez....
is it poss to send this e-mail address to Mr K Thorne ?
8/30/2008 7:57:19 AM
JC from Miami, FL sez....
All Thorne's Superman II/III works have been excellent. Their presentation in the limited Japan release don't accurately represent the masterpiece they were.
4/9/2008 3:20:35 PM
dotpattern from San Diego sez....
The Blue Box completely changed my opinion of Thorne's work on both films. I was one of the big complainers about his contributions, but then listened to the restored scores, with the proper mixes, on a great sound system in my car and I can the only thing I can ask for now is for the movies to be remixed with the music properly! Wonderful!
4/9/2008 10:44:46 AM
dugpa from Los Angeles sez....
I for one have always loved Thorne's score to Superman 2. It is great to finally get a newly re-mastered version.
4/8/2008 7:34:30 PM
Justin Boggan from Panama City, FL sez....
It's about time someone decided to interview a forgotten talent like Mr. Thorne. Wish more of the interview had been about other things, like if he's retired from composing, or thoughts about his excellent score to "Hannie Caulder". The man could also use a website.
tharpdevenport@hotmail.com
4/8/2008 10:31:30 AM
